Trust points?

[ocdb8r1]

That is how I am understanding it. So, only whole units still not declared could be transferred from DVD into the trust as resort property instead of going as part of the condo resort property.

Which part of the Trust documents restrict them to only putting undeclared units into the Trust? I couldn't find anything that would prevent them from depositing deeds (already declared into their respective condo plan) from the existing resorts. But maybe I missed it somewhere?

 

[Sandisw]

Which part of the Trust documents restrict them to only putting undeclared units into the Trust? I couldn't find anything that would prevent them from depositing deeds (already declared into their respective condo plan) from the existing resorts. But maybe I missed it somewhere?

No restriction I can find for units that have not yet become part of the current sold and being sold as part of leasehold condo.

It’s the ones already there and sold that I don’t think can go because it says they must add resort property first and then define what that is. If they don’t own 100% of a unit, they can’t add it.

 

[ocdb8r1]

No restriction I can find for units that have not yet become part of the current sold and being sold as part of leasehold condo.

It’s the ones already there and sold that I don’t think can go because it says they must add resort property first and then define what that is. If they don’t own 100% of a unit, they can’t add it.

Got it. That makes sense. But that means it would be possible for DVC to grant inventory it owns that has already been declared to one of the leasehold condo's. For example, RIV, VDH or AUL units they have declared to their respective condo's, for which DVC still own a full unit (or units).

They could even grant units from other existing resorts where they hold a full "unit" (unlikely there's a lot of that now....but there could be some examples). If they wanted to go this route, they could be very selective with ROFR by trying to purchase contracts that get them close to 100% of a unit so they could then grant it to the Trust.

 

[Sandisw]

Got it. That makes sense. But that means it would be possible for DVC to grant inventory it owns that has already been declared to one of the leasehold condo's. For example, RIV, VDH or AUL units they have declared to their respective condo's, for which DVC still own a full unit (or units).

They could even grant units from other existing resorts where they hold a full "unit" (unlikely there's a lot of that now....but there could be some examples). If they wanted to go this route, they could be very selective with ROFR by trying to purchase contracts that get them close to 100% of a unit so they could then grant it to the Trust.

See I don’t think they can because they don’t own full units of what has been declared.

And, units are most often comprised of many rooms so if a unit has 4 studios and 5 2 bedrooms and DVD owns 1% of that unit, what property gets added to the trust?

I don’t think can split a unit like that. Again, this isn’t about points and putting in a trust like you and I. It’s a developer setting it up for sale.

That is why I don’t think any current declared units in any resort can be added to the trust.

 

[ocdb8r1]

See I don’t think they can because they don’t own full units of what has been declared.

Certainly they must at VDH, RIV and likely AUL. For example, all the RIV units they recently declared, there certainly must be some of those for which they haven't yet "split" the unit up as they wait for sales to materialize.

 

[tom1944]

Could the trust give a pure resale buyer a reason to buy direct points in the trust instead of just buying direct at any other resort?

11 month booking window at all resorts in the trust. Beyond that anything?

Lower maintenance fees?
Lower initial cost?

 

[Sandisw]

Certainly they must at VDH, RIV and likely AUL. For example, all the RIV units they recently declared, there certainly must be some of those for which they haven't yet "split" the unit up as they wait for sales to materialize.

They don’t sell evenly though so my guess is that they don’t.

The units can’t be split either. Once declared as is, it stays that way.

Again, unless they own all, I just don’t see how it can add partial units.

I mean if they own 1 % of a unit with 3 2 bedrooms and 5 studios, what room gets added as trust property?

 

[Cyberc1978]

That is how I am understanding it. So, only whole units still not declared could be transferred from DVD into the trust as resort property instead of going as part of the condo resort property.

So the points they ROFR’ed from VGF last year couldn’t be part of a master plan to add VGF-1 1br to the trust? Or could they acquire all points form VGF-1 for a specific unit and sort of undeclare it and re-declare it to the trust?

 

[Sandisw]

So the points they ROFR’ed from VGF last year couldn’t be part of a master plan to add VGF-1 1br to the trust? Or could they acquire all points form VGF-1 for a specific unit and sort of undeclare it and re-declare it to the trust?

They would have to own the entire unit before it can even enter the trust.

But, where I am not 100% clear is how that could work because all units declared are open to all owners, even if DVD is sole owner.

Could they then remove it? Dont know but units are almost always multiple rooms. It would take a lot to get a full one.

Look at BPK..it was declared into the resort as two units…101 rooms each…

It’s why I will be watching very closely as to what happens.

 

[maui22]

How will banking and borrowing work with the trust?

If there were a mixed trust and DVC resort, example RIV 75% DVC and 25% trust. Would it be 75% for DVC for every day? Did they specify this in the trust filing?

What happens when a rehab is done, who loses? DVC or trust on booking inventory during that time?

Seems they should have any mixed use resort documented before they sell CFW.

 

[Cyberc1978]

They would have to own the entire unit before it can even enter the trust.

But, where I am not 100% clear is how that could work because all units declared are open to all owners, even if DVD is sole owner.

Could they then remove it? Dont know but units are almost always multiple rooms. It would take a lot to get a full one.

Look at BPK..it was declared into the resort as two units…101 rooms each…

It’s why I will be watching very closely as to what happens.

if we assume that DVD owns a particular unit, that would mean they also own all the underlying rooms associated with that unit for an entire year.

With a normal week based timeshare you would then own week 1-52 of a room(s) and you could then occupy all of those rooms for an entire year. With DVD being the developer is there any law, rule or anything else that prohibit DVD from taking out that inventory and putting it in the trust?

We have seen in the past that some rooms disappear before 11 months out, not just because of walkers. We assume that it could be because rooms have been taking out due to maintenance, system malfunction or if you and I have used our DVC points for a cruise then Disney gets to rent our DVC points to someone else. Technically they can't book before we can, but that's only technically - in the real world what's stopping them from booking or taking ie 4 x studios, 5 x 1br and 5 x 2br everyday of the year if the unit they own consist of those rooms and then move that inventory to the trust?

 

[Cyberc1978]

How will banking and borrowing work with the trust?

If there were a mixed trust and DVC resort, example RIV 75% DVC and 25% trust. Would it be 75% for DVC for every day? Did they specify this in the trust filing?

What happens when a rehab is done, who loses? DVC or trust on booking inventory during that time?

Seems they should have any mixed use resort documented before they sell CFW.

I assume that would be similar to the current setup.

When studios are taking out then all studios(same type) for a timespan is gone. Meaning both DVC and trust owners are impacted.

My understanding based on @Sandisw explanation is that If we assume that all units at Riviera are the same and consists of 5 x studios, 5 x 1br and 5 x 2br then trust owners can book those 15 rooms for everyday of the year.
The more units that DVD put into the trust the more rooms are available for the trust owners to book. If 2 units are in the trust that would equal 30 roms total for the entire year. The rest of the rooms would go to regular DVC owners and Disney itself to rent(undeclared units)

 

[Jlo85]

They would have to own the entire unit before it can even enter the trust.

If the Trust is setup as just a big points owner, is this necessarily the case? Technically no "units" are being declared into the Cabins (because the Cabins aren't even a condo). So, I think the prior condition where DVD needed to declare units into a condo to make it available for DVC usage doesn't really apply to the trust. They can just add property (or even just points) to the trust.

 

[Sandisw]

If the Trust is setup as just a big points owner, is this necessarily the case? Technically no "units" are being declared into the Cabins (because the Cabins aren't even a condo). So, I think the prior condition where DVD needed to declare units into a condo to make it available for DVC usage doesn't really apply to the trust. They can just add property (or even just points) to the trust.

They did indeed add and activate the cabins as units, so I am not sure what you are referring to.
ETA They did refer to them as phases and not units.

The site plans include the entire complex of cabins and was declared a trust property.

The current cabins were then activated for sale as units 1A to 1H (I think). It even states that and how many points those units have attached to them for sale.

The documents discuss that DVD will add resort property, and must define it,

If this was just about points, they didn’t need to activate specific units from the cabins.

Again, this does not seem to me as a trust that just holds points. And, based on that, it can’t just add units from other resorts it does not own in their entirety.

I get some see it as they just own points and can give access to whomever they want if theose are declared as part of the current resorts.

I disagree with that assumption because it changes the nature of it all as points would now be activated for sale in two different places.

 

[Sandisw]

if we assume that DVD owns a particular unit, that would mean they also own all the underlying rooms associated with that unit for an entire year.

With a normal week based timeshare you would then own week 1-52 of a room(s) and you could then occupy all of those rooms for an entire year. With DVD being the developer is there any law, rule or anything else that prohibit DVD from taking out that inventory and putting it in the trust?

We have seen in the past that some rooms disappear before 11 months out, not just because of walkers. We assume that it could be because rooms have been taking out due to maintenance, system malfunction or if you and I have used our DVC points for a cruise then Disney gets to rent our DVC points to someone else. Technically they can't book before we can, but that's only technically - in the real world what's stopping them from booking or taking ie 4 x studios, 5 x 1br and 5 x 2br everyday of the year if the unit they own consist of those rooms and then move that inventory to the trust?

My reading would be they would have access to the specific type of rooms that exist in the unit.

So, let’s say the 25% of RIv they still own and want to sell via trust and no longer via deeded consists of 1 GV, 2 tower, 10 2 bedrooms…and I am making that up because I didn’t actually go and check..

Those are the specific rooms the trust owners would have access to when booking. They is all they would see everyday.

Now, when it comes to the actual reservations, we can be put in any rooms as the resort.

So, as a RIv owner, I have access to 75% of the rooms and that will not change. As long as that 25% is never declared for use by deeded owners under our vacation plan, it’s no different than today.

The way I see it is now, 25% is owned by DVd and they can do what they want with it. It doesn’t get bookable for points until they declare it into RIV.

I don’t believe the trust owners would be allowed to get access to all units, just because they are not owners in the current plan.

This is the part I am watching closely because if they attempt to put partial units into the trust, I am ready to have a nice conversation with them.

But, given that Poly tower is a prime project that can go into the trust if they are ready to move this way beyond CFW, I don’t see them messing with sold out resorts declared inventory.

 

[Jlo85]

They did indeed add and activate the cabins as units, so I am not sure what you are referring to.

The site plans include the entire complex of cabins and was declared a trust property.

The current cabins were then activated for sale as units 1A to 1H (I think). It even states that and how many points those units have attached to them for sale.

1A to 1H are phases. They are not units. And DVD didn't 'declare' anything in the way they traditionally do for the condos. The property was just added to the trust. I've attached the Notice of Addition and a comparison to a recent declaration for RIV.

 

[GoingSince1990]

My reading would be they would have access to the specific type of rooms that exist in the unit.

So, let’s say the 25% of RIv they still own and want to sell via trust and no longer via deeded consists of 1 GV, 2 tower, 10 2 bedrooms…and I am making that up because I didn’t actually go and check..

Those are the specific rooms the trust owners would have access to when booking. They is all they would see everyday.

Now, when it comes to the actual reservations, we can be put in any rooms as the resort.

So, as a RIv owner, I have access to 75% of the rooms and that will not change. As long as that 25% is never declared for use by deeded owners under our vacation plan, it’s no different than today.

The way I see it is now, 25% is owned by DVd and they can do what they want with it. It doesn’t get bookable for points until they declare it into RIV.

I don’t believe the trust owners would be allowed to get access to all units, just because they are not owners in the current plan.

This is the part I am watching closely because if they attempt to put partial units into the trust, I am ready to have a nice conversation with them.

But, given that Poly tower is a prime project that can go into the trust if they are ready to move this way beyond CFW, I don’t see them messing with sold out resorts declared inventory.

So if someone wanted (for example) a 4 night stay in a GV, and only a “trust” GV was available for 2 of those nights and a “traditional” GV for the other 2, the 4-night stay would not be bookable. (Except if the guest owned both deeded and trust points, but then there is the question of whether a trust stay can be combined with a deeded stay without moving rooms). And there is also the thorny question of how the handicap-accessible villas would be divided up between the trust and non-trust resort rooms. Sounds like a big confusing mess, compared to just finishing selling the resort in the usual way, at which point all rooms can be booked by all owners.

 

[Matty B13]

My reading would be they would have access to the specific type of rooms that exist in the unit.

So, let’s say the 25% of RIv they still own and want to sell via trust and no longer via deeded consists of 1 GV, 2 tower, 10 2 bedrooms…and I am making that up because I didn’t actually go and check..

Those are the specific rooms the trust owners would have access to when booking. They is all they would see everyday.

Now, when it comes to the actual reservations, we can be put in any rooms as the resort.

So, as a RIv owner, I have access to 75% of the rooms and that will not change. As long as that 25% is never declared for use by deeded owners under our vacation plan, it’s no different than today.

The way I see it is now, 25% is owned by DVd and they can do what they want with it. It doesn’t get bookable for points until they declare it into RIV.

I don’t believe the trust owners would be allowed to get access to all units, just because they are not owners in the current plan.

This is the part I am watching closely because if they attempt to put partial units into the trust, I am ready to have a nice conversation with them.

But, given that Poly tower is a prime project that can go into the trust if they are ready to move this way beyond CFW, I don’t see them messing with sold out resorts declared inventory.

Isn't this also opening DVC up to a possible "bait & switch" lawsuit from current owners? When existing owners bought the resort, I'm assuming that most of them thought they would have access to ALL the units in the resort eventually after it was sold out.

 

[GoingSince1990]

Isn't this also opening DVC up to a possible "bait & switch" lawsuit from current owners? When existing owners bought the resort, I'm assuming that most of them thought they would have access to ALL the units in the resort eventually after it was sold out.

Not sure but possibly there is fine print that would allow them to stop sales and grab the remaining points for themselves to stick into a fancy new vehicle. Not an issue with CFW, of course, which has been announced to be in the trust format before any sales start. And the more I think of the logistical, legal, PR, and IT complexities of splitting existing resorts like RIV between different ownership formats, the more I believe that the trust system would only apply to CFW and other brand new resorts going forward.

 

[maui22]

My reading would be they would have access to the specific type of rooms that exist in the unit.

So, let’s say the 25% of RIv they still own and want to sell via trust and no longer via deeded consists of 1 GV, 2 tower, 10 2 bedrooms…and I am making that up because I didn’t actually go and check..

Those are the specific rooms the trust owners would have access to when booking. They is all they would see everyday.

Now, when it comes to the actual reservations, we can be put in any rooms as the resort.

So, as a RIv owner, I have access to 75% of the rooms and that will not change. As long as that 25% is never declared for use by deeded owners under our vacation plan, it’s no different than today.

The way I see it is now, 25% is owned by DVd and they can do what they want with it. It doesn’t get bookable for points until they declare it into RIV.

I don’t believe the trust owners would be allowed to get access to all units, just because they are not owners in the current plan.

This is the part I am watching closely because if they attempt to put partial units into the trust, I am ready to have a nice conversation with them.

But, given that Poly tower is a prime project that can go into the trust if they are ready to move this way beyond CFW, I don’t see them messing with sold out resorts declared inventory.

Wouldn’t they run into problems with figuring out the percentage? Example if all GVs declared into DVC, someone in trust either shouldn’t be able to book or there is a good chance combination of other trust room points wouldn’t work out to 25%.

Additionally, different views come into play. I don’t know what is undeclared, but it could get interesting if all undeclared was a standard view. They would have a hard time figuring out points balance for a day if booking from the others inventory.

Seems cleaner for Disney if they only opt to do this for new resorts.