Best Strategy for a trip in 2022? Lower Your Expectations

[xipotec]

Adjusting park attendance isn't the answer. What they need to do is up the LL guest to standby guest ratio. If that means standby crawls so be it. By doing that you they offer more availability for Genie+

While I agree with this, the only true solution is less riders, increased capacity. Its a simple math problem. Right not in WDW, there are simply too many people , and not enough throughput to have significant numbers moving through the lines.

That is of course, if your goal is to be able to get most guest through most 80%-90% of attractions in a single day.

of course, thats not their goal. It was never the goal with G+.

 

[Westerner]

The biggest strategy that would have worked for you was to search for 2 groups of 4 and refreshing a lot (nose in the phone, honestly). I had a large party (5) and had a lot harder time refreshing than others here (if you search my name, you’ll find me whining about it years ago) but I could have easily gotten Dino and EE. KS was doable but took more time. I’ve never tried NRJ because we always rope dropped it. I got FOP because I knew when to look. But several of those rides would have been available at 30 days.

One of the complaints about FP was that there were haves and have nots. The difference was how much time people were willing to spend researching the system. If you put a lot of time into it, you got a lot out. In that way I think it was more egalitarian than the current system (in addition to being free to everyone).

Thanks for the info! Followup question: in order to search for FP’s day-of, was it necessary to get and use 3 FP’s first?

With refreshing fast pass I was able to ride flight of passage on fast pass multiple times in one day!! With genie plus that isn’t even a possibility due to the one time on each ride per day rule. It just stinks.

Can you provide a sense of how much time spent refreshing was required for this?

 

[pixiedust2u]

With refreshing fast pass I was able to ride flight of passage on fast pass multiple times in one day!! With genie plus that isn’t even a possibility due to the one time on each ride per day rule. It just stinks.

This is why I just don’t understand why they couldn’t have made just a couple small changes to FP+, throw a price tag on it and move on. If they limited use to only one FP+ use for each ride, and implemented like a 60 minute rule…. Wouldn’t this have alleviated the stress the FP+ system out on standby and not created the mess that is genie+

 

[pixiedust2u]

Thanks for the info! Followup question: in order to search for FP’s day-of, was it necessary to get and use 3 FP’s first?


Can you provide a sense of how much time spent refreshing was required for this?

it’s clear that unfortunately you didn’t understand the specifics of the FP+ system. You could’ve booked any 3 FPs for morning hours, ie. MK small world 10-11, little mermaid 11-12, dumbo 12-1. Easily rope drop 7DMT or whatever of your choice. Get some other rides in before 10am…. Then You tap into small world at 10, then immediately modify your little mermaid to 10:15-11:15. Get off small world and tap into little mermaid at 10:15, then immediately modify your dumbo for 10:30-11:30…tap into dumbo at 10:40. Boom. All 3 of your fast passes are done by 11, and you can use the grab, tap, go for the rest of the day. With exception of 7DMT and PP you could easily get any additional FP.

This strategy might be a bit more challenging during Christmas or other peak times, during which fewer FP would be available as day when on. But otherwise was a solid strategy.

 

[BridgetBordeaux]

it’s clear that unfortunately you didn’t understand the specifics of the FP+ system. You could’ve booked any 3 FPs for morning hours, ie. MK small world 10-11, little mermaid 11-12, dumbo 12-1. Easily rope drop 7DMT or whatever of your choice. Get some other rides in before 10am…. Then You tap into small world at 10, then immediately modify your little mermaid to 10:15-11:15. Get off small world and tap into little mermaid at 10:15, then immediately modify your dumbo for 10:30-11:30…tap into dumbo at 10:40. Boom. All 3 of your fast passes are done by 11, and you can use the grab, tap, go for the rest of the day. With exception of 7DMT and PP you could easily get any additional FP.

This strategy might be a bit more challenging during Christmas or other peak times, during which fewer FP would be available as day when on. But otherwise was a solid strategy.

This is one approach that we used for years and felt that we got a lot done each day.

Now, Genie+ has absolutely reduced the flexibility and quantity we used to experience.

There was one year where I spent 50 nights at various on site and off site locations and felt that the FP+ system was a pretty good tool to touring the parks efficiently.

Genie+ with LL/ILL is a whole different animal and just does not provide the same level of line skipping.

 

[Jrb1979]

While I agree with this, the only true solution is less riders, increased capacity. Its a simple math problem. Right not in WDW, there are simply too many people , and not enough throughput to have significant numbers moving through the lines.

That is of course, if your goal is to be able to get most guest through most 80%-90% of attractions in a single day.

of course, thats not their goal. It was never the goal with G+.

That's part of it but the biggest issue is outside of MK is the lack of attractions for Genie+ to work. To put it in perspective across all 4 parks WDW has 42 attractions. Compare that to Cedar Point that has 70 attractions at 1 park.

They need more attractions at the parks not named MK. IMO Disney should follow the regional park model and add a new attraction each year. It doesn't always have to be an E-ticket attraction. They also need to stop taking 5 years to build something. Take a page from Universal in how quickly they built Velicoaster.

 

[DisneyFive]

I did try and had read articles beforehand and refreshed a fair bit in the park. But let me ask you this, since you probably understand FP+ better than me. How many FP+'s do you think I could have gotten from my target ride list in this scenario:

• August 2019, decided on a Thursday to go to AK the following Monday
• Group of 8 people staying offsite
• Target rides: FoP, NRJ, KS, EE, Dino, KRR
• Hours in park: 10am-5pm
• Willing to spend up to 1 hour on PC trying to book FP's before entering park
• Willing to spend up to 30 mins on phone in park to book FP's

If you could provide a few details on how / what I should have booked or done I'd be obliged.

Keeping in mind this is all hypothetical...

Throw out a worst case scenario why don't ya. LOL Those super short park hours don't help. Here's how I would have seen that going if I was in that situation. Keep in mind that you couldn't book a 4th FP until you used up your first three, so that is key to getting more than 3 (don't schedule the 1st three in the evening for instance).

I would go into the day assuming that I would need to ride FOP either at rope drop or park close. If you choose park close (which is what I would do), then if it does pop up on FP+ during the day, well then you just got pixie dusted. Anyway...

Between Thur and Sunday I wouldn't have spent much time checking online before the day-of. Odds are they would be pretty booked up, but my guess is that at least Dino would have been available before noon. Dino booked.

Morning of: Start checking for FP's. My guess is that KRR would also be available before noon. KRR booked. Keep looking (i.e. refreshing) for the rest. FOP is going to be very difficult, but EE is plausable by 2pm. Book EE.

At 2pm, start refreshing with KS, NRJ and FOP in mind. In my experience, high odds that one would pop up before 5, most likely KS. Book KS.

It's possibly that some of these rides you could have ridden again with FP+ after KS. Dino was regularly available, and EE also opened up later in the day.

That leaves FOP and NRJ as the wildcards. It's possible that one of them would have shown up sometime in the day, and then you would have to prioritize.

Ride FOP at park close. That leaves NRJ as the fallen soldier. Can't win 'em all.

Dan

 

[DisneyFive]

This is why I just don’t understand why they couldn’t have made just a couple small changes to FP+, throw a price tag on it and move on. If they limited use to only one FP+ use for each ride, and implemented like a 60 minute rule…. Wouldn’t this have alleviated the stress the FP+ system out on standby and not created the mess that is genie+

I agree, with the exception of the 60 minute rule. I don’t think that is all that necessary and it really starts restricting things especially at a park like Magic Kingdom.

I would also suggest to make things fair for offsite and on-site guess that everyone is able to book at the same day ahead of time. I think two weeks before your vacation would be optimal. That includes offsite and on-site and those last-minute guests. If you don’t know two weeks ahead of time that you are going to Disney, well then, too bad.

Worst case I would also be OK with making the preselections down to two ahead of time and then rolling from there day of, but leave all attractions as options including FOP, ROTR, 7DMT, Remy, etc.That should alleviate a LOT of the capacity issues.

Dan

 

[wdhinn89]

I agree, with the exception of the 60 minute rule. I don’t think that is all that necessary and it really starts restricting things especially at a park like Magic Kingdom.

I would also suggest to make things fair for offsite and on-site guess that everyone is able to book at the same day ahead of time. I think two weeks before your vacation would be optimal. That includes offsite and on-site and those last-minute guests. If you don’t know two weeks ahead of time that you are going to Disney, well then, too bad.

Worst case I would also be OK with making the preselections down to two ahead of time and then rolling from there day of, but leave all attractions as options including FOP, ROTR, 7DMT, Remy, etc.That should alleviate a LOT of the capacity issues.

Dan

There has to be an incentive for staying on site and paying the outrageous hotel costs. Offsite guests should not have the same perks as onsite

 

[Jrb1979]

There has to be an incentive for staying on site and paying the outrageous hotel costs. Offsite guests should not have the same perks as onsite

Right now there is no need for incentives for onsite guests. Not when they are filling the hotels with no perks offered.

 

[Westerner]

Keeping in mind this is all hypothetical...

Throw out a worst case scenario why don't ya. LOL Those super short park hours don't help. Here's how I would have seen that going if I was in that situation. Keep in mind that you couldn't book a 4th FP until you used up your first three, so that is key to getting more than 3 (don't schedule the 1st three in the evening for instance).

I would go into the day assuming that I would need to ride FOP either at rope drop or park close. If you choose park close (which is what I would do), then if it does pop up on FP+ during the day, well then you just got pixie dusted. Anyway...

Between Thur and Sunday I wouldn't have spent much time checking online before the day-of. Odds are they would be pretty booked up, but my guess is that at least Dino would have been available before noon. Dino booked.

Morning of: Start checking for FP's. My guess is that KRR would also be available before noon. KRR booked. Keep looking (i.e. refreshing) for the rest. FOP is going to be very difficult, but EE is plausable by 2pm. Book EE.

At 2pm, start refreshing with KS, NRJ and FOP in mind. In my experience, high odds that one would pop up before 5, most likely KS. Book KS.

It's possibly that some of these rides you could have ridden again with FP+ after KS. Dino was regularly available, and EE also opened up later in the day.

That leaves FOP and NRJ as the wildcards. It's possible that one of them would have shown up sometime in the day, and then you would have to prioritize.

Ride FOP at park close. That leaves NRJ as the fallen soldier. Can't win 'em all.

Dan

Appreciate the info. Following this FP+ strategy would've probably earned me strange looks from BIL from having nose in the phone a lot, but if I could have pulled an FoP or NRJ out of the FP+ hat I would have earned a lot of points with DW.

For comparison here's the hypothetical G+/$ILL equivalent. Note: EE is currently down.

• 7AM: book KS for ~noonish return time
• 7:30-8:00: book FoP. return time highly variable but generally available within our 10-5 window.
• 9:30: book NRJ for ~2pm
• 11:30: book KRR for ~2pm
• 1:30: Dino return times now after 5pm. Fallen soldier situation. Probably would have ridden it standby in the morning.

Price $26+tax/pp.
Time spent on phone: ~30 minutes. approx 5 minutes for each G+ and 10 minutes for the FoP $ILL.

Question for you - what was your average wait time in FP+ lines? I've read reports that 15-30 mins was typical.

 

[Westerner]

it’s clear that unfortunately you didn’t understand the specifics of the FP+ system. You could’ve booked any 3 FPs for morning hours, ie. MK small world 10-11, little mermaid 11-12, dumbo 12-1. Easily rope drop 7DMT or whatever of your choice. Get some other rides in before 10am…. Then You tap into small world at 10, then immediately modify your little mermaid to 10:15-11:15. Get off small world and tap into little mermaid at 10:15, then immediately modify your dumbo for 10:30-11:30…tap into dumbo at 10:40. Boom. All 3 of your fast passes are done by 11, and you can use the grab, tap, go for the rest of the day. With exception of 7DMT and PP you could easily get any additional FP.

This strategy might be a bit more challenging during Christmas or other peak times, during which fewer FP would be available as day when on. But otherwise was a solid strategy.

I think you're conflating knowledge of the system vs strategy. It was before COVID which seems like another era, but I did recall that you had to use 3 FP's before getting more. What wasn't clear to me was whether @PrincessWithABlaster 's strategy was for the initial 3 FP's (via modification day-of) or 4th+. Your suggestion about booking 3 dummy FP's morning-of in order to get access to the day-of pool is clever, but counterintuitive and is a strategy rather than system knowledge. It's not in the FP+ FAQ summary posts but I do see the below points that I think are relevant:

The first 12 posts are organized to help readers find answers to FAQs as quickly and as easily as possible. They are updated regularly and reflect current FastPass+ policy, attraction selections, and suggested priorities. It is not necessary to read the entire thread for it to be useful for most readers.

Only 4th FPs (and beyond) are not subject to tiering limitations. Scheduling less than 3 FPs for a day is not a shortcut to getting additional Group 1 FPs in the same park faster.

Success at getting additional FPs depends primarily on two factors: the size of the group and how often one is willing to “refresh” the available FP list for an attraction.

 

[wdhinn89]

Right now there is no need for incentives for onsite guests. Not when they are filling the hotels with no perks offered.

Yes, I agree, there are much less perks now but being able to book $ILL at 7am for onsite guests seems to be an important one. Extra evening and early morning hours is another as well as earlier dining reservations. These perks give
people a reason to stay onsite.

 

[RamblingMad]

Geez, I’m starting to understand why FP+ was so great. People obviously gave up on it when they couldn’t get what they wanted 30 days out…completely failing to realize how easy it was to get what you wanted day-of. If only we could have benefited from this ignorance forever. Sigh.

When I first experienced it, you had to go the terminals in the park. It wasn't available on your phone yet. It was a mess.

And I don't want to go on vacation and stare at my phone.

 

[RamblingMad]

There has to be an incentive for staying on site and paying the outrageous hotel costs. Offsite guests should not have the same perks as onsite

And this why I gave up on WDW and stuck to DL, which tends to be more of a locals park. And staying on site provided less benefits.

 

[RamblingMad]

What's your current strategy?

It seems like if you want to really pay up, go VIP. If not, then you're basically paying to enter the park to shop and eat and wait in long lines. If you get Genie+ or ILL, then you're paying up but not guaranteed to get anything good. Plus, you're staring at your phone all day. Not a great way to disconnect on vacation. This is why I mainly take hiking/camping vacations. My phone doesn't work most of the time. And my sat messenger is too expensive to use other than in emergencies or for preset updates.

I'm personally waiting to see if any changes are made to Genie+ and ILL before going back to the parks.

 

[Princesca]

There has to be an incentive for staying on site and paying the outrageous hotel costs. Offsite guests should not have the same perks as onsite

Came here to say this. Why should things between on-site and off-site guests be equal? Those people staying on-site are paying a premium for their room, and there should be incentive to do that.

 

[Princesca]

Just curious, how many did you expect to get?

I don't consider the Disney wording change a lowering of expectations, more like setting expectations.

For better or worse, though inaccurate, the message that had been getting out to the general public was basically that for $15 you could skip all the lines except for maybe a couple of 'premier' experiences. At least this is the jist I was getting from people I know. One of my friends said, "I think we'll be able to see all we want in MK in a day. We'll just pay a little extra for that Genie thing so we can skip the lines." I was like 'Whoa there, Nelly...'

I think this misconcept is in part due to the fact that the 'tiered' way Disney has set this up with Genie, Genie+, and ILL is confusing for people, and people expect if there's an extra charge, it's a blanket 'add-on' that applies to everything. They're not realizing that it's going to require consistent effort and input from them throughout the day.

 

[DisneyFive]

Price $26+tax/pp.

Question for you - what was your average wait time in FP+ lines? I've read reports that 15-30 mins was typical.

That ~$27 per person per day is $135 for our family. That could pay for quick service food for our entire family for the day.

I would say our average wait time with FP+ was 10 to 15 minutes with the rare occasional 30 if something was messed up. It wasn’t that rare to walk right on with FP+ also.

Keep in mind, your scenario is worst case from a number of aspects. (Offsite, super short park hours, park with few good FP options, a few days notice).

With FP+ we would have been guaranteed FOP as well because we booked at the 60 day mark. That is left out of the conversation because that wasn’t the point, but it was our reality.

Looking at the two scenarios, given the cost now and everything else, I would still take the free FP+ option even being offsite in your scenario.

Dan

 

[DisneyFive]

There has to be an incentive for staying on site and paying the outrageous hotel costs. Offsite guests should not have the same perks as onsite

Came here to say this. Why should things between on-site and off-site guests be equal? Those people staying on-site are paying a premium for their room, and there should be incentive to do that.

FWIW, we have only ever been onsite guests and I can’t imagine staying offsite.

I don’t disagree with you at all. However, if I could have FP+ back, I would be OK with equal footing on-site and offsite.

Paper fastpass was equal for on-site and offsite with the exception of the park that had early morning hours for on-site guests. By the time offsite guests arrived the top-tier ride would be pushed out into the afternoon for return times but they were still available if you rope dropped. For everything else paper fastpass was equal for on-site and offsite.

Find other ways to incentivize on-site guests… make the early morning and evening hours longer, all transportation provided by Disney. Better ADR availability, stuff like that. Magical Express (sigh) I think it’s all a lost cause though sadly

Dan