Disney "Money Grab" and the future of Universal

[Mousefan mom]

We are mourning the loss of 1-2 week long (sometimes more) Disney trips where we stayed deluxe and felt magic...but we are done. The Genie is the last straw. We went this summer and it was an hour long wait for everything in hour long ques out in the miserable heat. Jam packed crowds, dirty room (mousekeeping non existent), and they have just let things go so much. The value isn't there and for what we pay for Disney (easily a $10 K vacation for our family all said and done), we are looking forward to new destinations.

 

[Toolulu22]

So with many folks basically in open revolt against many of the recent Disney price hikes and changes many of the Disney Die hards seem to be talking about Universal only vacations.

Many don think Universal will be as good - I think they will be surprised - but I am concerned it will continue the trend of Universal being very busy and reduced availability. Already they dont seem to be able to handle the Dining needs of folks for a variety of reasons.

Personally I stopped staying at Disney Hotels in 2016. The last time I went to Disney it was 2017 and I stayed at Universal Hotels and got the Mears Shuttle to Disney.
I won't go to deep into it, but basically I felt Disney was ripping us off way back then and often compared it to the frog in the pot analogy for those that just could not see it. Took a fair amount of gruff from folks in the forums and basically walked away to leave "more for them."
Will be very interested in how Universal handles this - hopefully they dont too greedy and start hiking prices.
Disney has given them quite an opportunity - its too bad Epic was delayed so long.

Personally I am OK with a "Pay to Play" system at Disney - Universal sort of has it with Express pass - but the rumored $20 per person per ride seems out of hand to me - wouldn't a VIP tour be cheaper in the end? Depending on the details of it it may actually get me back to Disney for a day or two (that's all I really can take)

So how do people feel this will change Universal or are people all talk and they will just pay Mickey Mou$e like they always have?

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We spend more time at WDW, but had also spent vacation time at Universal- back to when Islands of Adventure was the newest park, there were ‘only’ 3 on-site hotels, and very limited dining options.

In a short time they’ve added so much! Now everyone thinks it’s the inexpensive option, but they used to be much less expensive than they are now! Ticket prices have shot up since our last stay in 2014 to this year, when we stayed one night and didn’t bother with tickets- did a resort only stay.

We always stay at Royal Pacific and found that now that they added on hotels and have become so popular what was once a $225/night room is now $599/night- almost 3x as much and in line with Disney’s Deluxe hotel pricing. We stayed one night to see if we would get 3x better accommodations. They did redo the rooms, but not 3x the value worth.

We’re kind of opposite everyone else in feeling that they’ve jacked up the prices so much that even though there is now Volcano Bay, we wouldn’t be returning in the near or distant future. Disney’s shenanigans are another story. It’s okay, we’ve had s great two years of vacations outside of Orlando and are shifting in that direction for the future.

 

[EveDallas]

I agree that they've gotten much more expensive, but what you get is so much more than at Disney. The EP perk alone is light years better than anything WDW offers.

 

[DuskKodesh]

Another person in the mouseless camp. Our last trip was 2020 (Feb, before things hit the fan) and we'd been doing every two years for a bit. Usually I planned out things a year in advance but after seeing some of the early handling from Disney of the situation I took a let's see approach and eventually settled on UO for our next trip. The spouse was sold once he saw that this nice hotel we were getting (Royal Pacific) was the price of the value hotel we stayed in at Disney. So really I kind of broke before the Genie meltdown but... if I'd not canned the idea before I have to say this would have done it.

They could have handled this better, hidden the costs in a ticket increase or... really anything else. But the entertainment cuts, lack of characters, shows, street performers... I've been noticing all that since before our last trip. For our money we'll try UO and if we end up not liking it then there's Silver Dollar City, Dollywood, Knotts, Evermore, Conventions, Concerts, Cruises, and national parks. There's so many fun options for travel with the cash we could have spent at Disney.

 

[tony67]

We spend more time at WDW, but had also spent vacation time at Universal- back to when Islands of Adventure was the newest park, there were ‘only’ 3 on-site hotels, and very limited dining options.

In a short time they’ve added so much! Now everyone thinks it’s the inexpensive option, but they used to be much less expensive than they are now! Ticket prices have shot up since our last stay in 2014 to this year, when we stayed one night and didn’t bother with tickets- did a resort only stay.

We always stay at Royal Pacific and found that now that they added on hotels and have become so popular what was once a $225/night room is now $599/night- almost 3x as much and in line with Disney’s Deluxe hotel pricing. We stayed one night to see if we would get 3x better accommodations. They did redo the rooms, but not 3x the value worth.

We’re kind of opposite everyone else in feeling that they’ve jacked up the prices so much that even though there is now Volcano Bay, we wouldn’t be returning in the near or distant future. Disney’s shenanigans are another story. It’s okay, we’ve had s great two years of vacations outside of Orlando and are shifting in that direction for the future.

IDk - much like Disney if you look for deal they are there - I have never paid Rack Rate at Disney or Universal and I would never pay 599 for RPR.

For example with my AP I am paying 189 a night for RPR - in 2003 I paid $143 with AP rate - that's not bad at all IMO - Been a long time since Disney gave an AP discount on rooms of 40-50% (they used to)

Tickets have gone up - but they have added a lot so that is harder to quantify - my first Power Pass was $89 now its 399 - so yeah that's gone up a lot. A large portion of that pays for the HP IP I assume.
The Disney AP has gone up to a point where it is just not cost affective IMO - it used to be not much more than a 10 day ticket.

As for vacation outside of Orlando - yeah that is a good idea - so many better values than Disney in the world, but Disney has even found a way to monetize that - I cant imagine going to Europe and paying a large premium for Adventures by Disney.

Id say the same for the Disney Cruse lines I did the first two ships in their first 6 months of operations and would not do that again

But to your point - yeah Universal is a business and will charge what they can - they are not benevolent - Im not under any illusions.
They are probably looking at what Disney is doing and pricing things to they look like the better value, but have plans to up prices when it makes sense.

 

[dez1978]

Another person in the mouseless camp. Our last trip was 2020 (Feb, before things hit the fan) and we'd been doing every two years for a bit. Usually I planned out things a year in advance but after seeing some of the early handling from Disney of the situation I took a let's see approach and eventually settled on UO for our next trip. The spouse was sold once he saw that this nice hotel we were getting (Royal Pacific) was the price of the value hotel we stayed in at Disney. So really I kind of broke before the Genie meltdown but... if I'd not canned the idea before I have to say this would have done it.

They could have handled this better, hidden the costs in a ticket increase or... really anything else. But the entertainment cuts, lack of characters, shows, street performers... I've been noticing all that since before our last trip. For our money we'll try UO and if we end up not liking it then there's Silver Dollar City, Dollywood, Knotts, Evermore, Conventions, Concerts, Cruises, and national parks. There's so many fun options for travel with the cash we could have spent at Disney.

for what it's worth, if you are used to WDW or UO, you will be sadly disappointed in Silver Dollar City. We live near there and have ap's bc it's like $140/pp, less than a 2 day ticket. It's cute, but it does not compare to WDW or UO. There are a couple pretty good coasters tho. And be prepared for the hills. It's much smaller than any of the disney parks, I think it's like 13 acres, but it soooo hilly. So while you walk much less than a day at Disney, it feels just as bad. And they are stricter about some things. Like there is no alcohol sold anywhere in the park. And you are not allowed to wear a bikini top without a shirt over it. I have seen them actually enforce that several times.

 

[cfoxga]

But to your point - yeah Universal is a business and will charge what they can - they are not benevolent - Im not under any illusions.
They are probably looking at what Disney is doing and pricing things to they look like the better value, but have plans to up prices when it makes sense.

Disney is extremely good at making money. They know that some folks will leave when prices increase, but they appear to still have excess demand for their services. While it is not unlimited, it does allow them to make decisions that will ultimately price out some people.

Universal has definitely benefitted from this, allowing them to add 3 resorts in the 4 years we've been going to UO. Room prices have steadily increased, and ticket prices have gone up as well (including higher prices for peak day tickets). So as the parks grow more crowded and the resorts fill up, I won't be shocked if Universal eventually gets popular enough to make the same decisions as Disney...

For our money we'll try UO and if we end up not liking it then there's Silver Dollar City, Dollywood, Knotts, Evermore, Conventions, Concerts, Cruises, and national parks. There's so many fun options for travel with the cash we could have spent at Disney.

We love Dollywood, especially when staying at the Dreammore resort. The bubble is much smaller than WDW or UO, but they really have maintained the charm and really are focused on good service.

 

[leahgoogle]

I'm a Disney fanatic! I absolutely try and get there as much as funds will allow (works out to about 1-2 times a year). This year our family is doing Universal over fall break for the first time. DH even talked about getting season passes if the kids like it enough. I can't see myself never going to Disney again (I love it too much), but I want to see how Genie plays out. I really don't mind the $15 per day lightening lane fee. It's the upcharge beyond that for certain rides that gets me. I think structuring it like Universal's Express Pass with deluxe hotels would have been better.

 

[DuskKodesh]

for what it's worth, if you are used to WDW or UO, you will be sadly disappointed in Silver Dollar City. We live near there and have ap's bc it's like $140/pp, less than a 2 day ticket. It's cute, but it does not compare to WDW or UO. There are a couple pretty good coasters tho. And be prepared for the hills. It's much smaller than any of the disney parks, I think it's like 13 acres, but it soooo hilly. So while you walk much less than a day at Disney, it feels just as bad. And they are stricter about some things. Like there is no alcohol sold anywhere in the park. And you are not allowed to wear a bikini top without a shirt over it. I have seen them actually enforce that several times.

I appreciate the heads up! The main reason it's on my list is I have a dear friend in St. Louis so most of the reason it's on my must visit list is so I can make her take off work and we trip down there. The park is really just an excuse to spend the day with her. Also honestly I don't drink so... the no alcohol is a selling point! XD Also I'm just a fan of kitsch and plan to stack some other attractions with the trip.

@cfoxga Ooh! Thank you! We'll have to check out that resort!

 

[Toolulu22]

IDk - much like Disney if you look for deal they are there - I have never paid Rack Rate at Disney or Universal and I would never pay 599 for RPR.

For example with my AP I am paying 189 a night for RPR - in 2003 I paid $143 with AP rate - that's not bad at all IMO - Been a long time since Disney gave an AP discount on rooms of 40-50% (they used to)

Tickets have gone up - but they have added a lot so that is harder to quantify - my first Power Pass was $89 now its 399 - so yeah that's gone up a lot. A large portion of that pays for the HP IP I assume.
The Disney AP has gone up to a point where it is just not cost affective IMO - it used to be not much more than a 10 day ticket.

As for vacation outside of Orlando - yeah that is a good idea - so many better values than Disney in the world, but Disney has even found a way to monetize that - I cant imagine going to Europe and paying a large premium for Adventures by Disney.

Id say the same for the Disney Cruse lines I did the first two ships in their first 6 months of operations and would not do that again

But to your point - yeah Universal is a business and will charge what they can - they are not benevolent - Im not under any illusions.
They are probably looking at what Disney is doing and pricing things to they look like the better value, but have plans to up prices when it makes sense.

IDk - much like Disney if you look for deal they are there - I have never paid Rack Rate at Disney or Universal and I would never pay 599 for RPR.

For example with my AP I am paying 189 a night for RPR - in 2003 I paid $143 with AP rate - that's not bad at all IMO - Been a long time since Disney gave an AP discount on rooms of 40-50% (they used to)

Tickets have gone up - but they have added a lot so that is harder to quantify - my first Power Pass was $89 now its 399 - so yeah that's gone up a lot. A large portion of that pays for the HP IP I assume.
The Disney AP has gone up to a point where it is just not cost affective IMO - it used to be not much more than a 10 day ticket.

As for vacation outside of Orlando - yeah that is a good idea - so many better values than Disney in the world, but Disney has even found a way to monetize that - I cant imagine going to Europe and paying a large premium for Adventures by Disney.

Id say the same for the Disney Cruse lines I did the first two ships in their first 6 months of operations and would not do that again

But to your point - yeah Universal is a business and will charge what they can - they are not benevolent - Im not under any illusions.
They are probably looking at what Disney is doing and pricing things to they look like the better value, but have plans to up prices when it makes sense.

I am a deal seeker as well, and usually get a great deal on my favorite resort stay at WDW as well. Unfortunately, during our stay at Royal Pacific Universal this year (March 31) during COVID and Easter Week, I did not find a deal at that particular hotel. We have looked into AP passes in order to get discounts on hotels, but there were no AP discounts available at that time and even though we did not end up going into the parks, it was also a black-out period for the parks. Never say never, we paid the rack rate this once, and one night. It was a choice and we made concessions by not paying for park tickets. Instead, we used the pool, played Putt Putt, and spent time checking out the new additions to Citywalk. That worked for an overnight stay.

I agree about ABD in terms of pricing for people paying cash. The costs of the trips are ridiculously overpriced for what they offer. For DVC owners who use points for them, it could be the only way some might travel out of country.

Yes, both Disney and Universal will be looking to maximize profits at the expense of our wallets.

 

[Rusty2rules]

I leave in 3 weeks. I've been planning this trip for 2 years. I was supposed to go last September but...yeah. Anyway, I had originally planned 5 days at the Mouse House, staying onsite, and Universal wasn't even on the radar. After all of the money grabs and cutting of perks, they ticked me off for the last time. In February I changed everything. I cut Disney down from 5 days to 3, cancelled my onsite reservations, and added 2 days of Universal. I'm staying in a 2 bed/2 bath suite for less than half of what I was going to pay to stay onsite. If not for Galaxy's Edge, I'd have cancelled Disney altogether. I'm done with their money grabs. After this trip, I'm done with Disney. Seriously. I mean, never say never. But it would take something really, really incredible to get me to go back.

With all of that said, I haven't been to Universal since the early 2000s. I'm super excited about it! I've got the VIP Experience our first day, so we should be able to cover a lot of ground that day.

 

[GatorChris]

I just cut our WDW trip in half and added 3 nights and 4 days at USO. We actually went to Universal last October. Disney had zero deals, but Universal had the steal of a lifetime. So we went, and we loved it! I actually had a 5 day trip to WDW in August that got cancelled last minute by us getting Covid. So I moved it to December. But the prices went WAY up. Plus they won't be offering deals since it's the 50th and their resorts are booked solid through the year's end. It would've been (not counting flights) $1000/day for 5 day and 6 nights at a Moderate with base tickets. I just wasn't gonna have it. So I extended the trip by one day, switched half to USO, and the price is nearly identical. My kids are pretty excited about it. I would imagine that 2022 will see a big uptick at USO. So much so that they'll need to figure out a better FP system or they'll lose any new customers in the long term.

 

[DCLMP]

Universal has been charging for fast passes(express pass) for years so does Sea World. The new fast pass system is similar to what DL has been doing for years. I'm sorry I don't get the outrage. It may save people money no longer having to stay onsite.

 

[DCLMP]

We are mourning the loss of 1-2 week long (sometimes more) Disney trips where we stayed deluxe and felt magic...but we are done. The Genie is the last straw. We went this summer and it was an hour long wait for everything in hour long ques out in the miserable heat. Jam packed crowds, dirty room (mousekeeping non existent), and they have just let things go so much. The value isn't there and for what we pay for Disney (easily a $10 K vacation for our family all said and done), we are looking forward to new destinations.

We just returned from a trip to DL. We never waited more than 30 minutes for anything. We walked on a lot of rides. Maybe a change of coasts is in order. It's easier to avoid crowds at DL by going during the week offseason. WDW is always packed.

 

[Rusty2rules]

Universal has been charging for fast passes(express pass) for years so does Sea World. The new fast pass system is similar to what DL has been doing for years. I'm sorry I don't get the outrage. It may save people money no longer having to stay onsite.

I really don't have that much of a problem with Genie. We don't know how much it's going to cost per ride yet, other than the $15 up charge. If they don't get stupid about it (which there's no guarantee), I'd do it. Every other amusement park does something similar. What gets me is the other stuff. Charging to park at the resorts. Charging for Magic Bands. Eliminating Magic Express. No more transferring souvenirs to your room. No house cleaning. Elimination of Early/Extra Magic Hours. Eliminating MVSHP and MVMCP but substituting with basically an after hours party, shortening the hours, and charging nearly double the price. I could go on and on. All without giving anything back. That's what grinds me. Like I said, I changed my plans long before Genie.

 

[Nabas]

We are DVC members, Annual Passholders, and go to WDW several times a year.

We have already rented out some of our DVC points, shortened our next 3 WDW trips, bought Universal annual passes, and booked stays at the Hard Rock, Royal Pacific, and Portofino Bay. The points we have rented out will cover the cost of these Universal annual passes and Deluxe Resort stays.

We figure if we are going to pay extra for an express lane, we might as well do it right and stay at Universal Deluxe Resorts where we will get express lane access all day long without having to go through the somersaults Disney wants us to go through with Genie+ and Individual Attraction Purchase (IAP), with Genie+ and IAP only providing limited express lane access.

Seriously, does Disney really think that paying $705 per night to stay at the Polynesian and then having to pay another $50-$60 per person per day more ($200+ for a family of 4) is somehow better then paying $204 per night to stay at the Royal Pacific (AP rate - rack rate is $314) plus get unlimited Express Pass all day long?

 

[Nabas]

We just returned from a trip to DL. We never waited more than 30 minutes for anything. We walked on a lot of rides. Maybe a change of coasts is in order. It's easier to avoid crowds at DL by going during the week offseason. WDW is always packed.

There are really short lines at WDW right now. Between this being the traditionally slowest times of year and the Florida COVID rate, lots of people are not going to WDW at the moment. It will pick up for the 50th, but I see lots of hotel availability before then.

On Sunday evening, the Standby line at Rise of the Resistance was opened to walk-ups at 7:30 pm, while afternoon Boarding Groups were available for hours on other days.

 

[tony67]

There are really short lines at WDW right now. Between this being the traditionally slowest times of year and the Florida COVID rate, lots of people are not going to WDW at the moment. It will pick up for the 50th, but I see lots of hotel availability before then.

On Sunday evening, the Standby line at Rise of the Resistance was opened to walk-ups at 7:30 pm, while afternoon Boarding Groups were available for hours on other days.

Lots of Factors here - but I think the biggest factor making this September much slower than previous Septembers is the lack of UK\EU tourists as well as other Non US Tourists. September and October seems to be the time many come and they usually stay 2-3 weeks - they are not allowed into the country this year.

 

[tony67]

Universal has been charging for fast passes(express pass) for years so does Sea World. The new fast pass system is similar to what DL has been doing for years. I'm sorry I don't get the outrage. It may save people money no longer having to stay onsite.

Yeah - this is the biggest take away for me is that I dont have to plan every minute of every day a month in advance after the on folks site have taken most of the good stuff 60 days in advance - or whatever the windows are now.
One of the reason I like Universal is I can just show up and do what every I want - I have not gotten Express pass in years.

There are still convenience reasons to stay on site at Disney but the cost makes it tough.
I've tried to stay off site at Universal but the prices are very competitive - in many cases less then off site - and I like the convivence of being on site.

 

[Grumpy92]

tony67 we are right there with you. We were die hard Disney fans, visiting multiple times on a yearly basis, always staying on property and working there. I could not imagine not staying/visiting UO compared to the best. About the time they added HP to UO we tried staying at RPR and havent looked back. The hotels were so much better and we got great AP discounts. Often we can get a family suite at CBBR cheaper then a Disney value, not to mention the great pools. Recently we got a really low Hotwire rate at Pop and we commented how minimal the amenities & how small the rooms were at the resort compared to UO hotels. The family now prefers staying at UO.

Universal really appreciates their AP guest, give much better discounts on practically everything, and even have a passholder appreciation month. No rush to hit the parks, transportation seems to be faster, larger rooms, really no early planning for every aspect of the visit and I have to say we commented that the TMs are what CMs used to be like in the early days at Disney (friendly, helpful & informed). Often we have found no need for the express lane option, if you time it right, with the exception of holidays, the lines are not that bad. We are Floridians so we drive over to WDW but spend less time there, always go to Disney Springs as we love the restaurants though and get our Disney fix. If we want to stay on property we stay at the Swan/Dolphin or Hilton/Waldorf BC.

We really feel we get more bang for our buck at UO and the AP is so worth it. I stopped saying that about WDW a long time ago and each year we discuss whether to renew our WDW AP. The last few years we have downgraded the type. Saying all that I think the lack of APs for sell while there competitor is selling them was a major error, then add in the decrease in benefits and now additional charges. Guest are finding out what we did a few years ago. There will always be those who will pay anything for the Disney experience but I think more who have to really save for a visit will re-evaluate what they can afford. I just hope UO can adjust and it does not ruin the experience.