Idea to improve DAS

[cmwade77]

I hesitated for a long time to post anything about our experience to these threads because of posts like this. I was simply stating what it would take to make it worthwhile for us to take our disabled teenage son to Disney. Disney and a lot of folks agree with your assessment. I would try to point out that until you try waiting elsewhere with a child with significant cognitive and physical disabilities, you may not think it is all that easy. However, having read lots of threads comparing disabled children to toddlers and other kids that have trouble waiting, there are a lot of people that agree with you. But the point is moot as DAS is here. Whether the DAS is fair and equal and does what Disney and general public expect it to do, time will tell. Everyone that enters Disney gets to judge if it is a good value and experience and if they will come back. We have decided that the DAS did not work for my family in its current form and other vacations may work better for us.

I have two suggestions for you:
First is write Disney, not only via the website and the link for guests with disabilities, but also write a physical letter. Let them know your experience with the system, be as detailed as possible about what the problems were and how it impacted your vacation. I can tell you that there are listening to everyone right now and if you make sure that they know how upset this made you, chances are they will try to make it right by at least trying to fix the system in the future based on feedback.

Second is to keep your eye on this, one thing that I am certain will happen is that the DAS system WILL be tweaked based on all of the feedback that they are getting.

 

[aaarcher86]

Ever tried to get around on four wheels, as the parks get more and more crowded its getting worse.

Not personally, but I've experienced it. At some point it comes a bit with the territory. I'm all for more kiosks if it would help, or having the option of getting a return time at the particular ride in conjunction with kiosks.

 

[curemyreed]

@cmwade----Could you post a list of the theme parks using the system you propose or one very similar? Somewhere back in the thread I saw that you and a poster from the U.K. had mentioned some.

I ask because between the DAS and FP changes we may not be able to go to Disney anymore. My DD has numerous disabilities. Additionally, she fixates on riding just a few rides repeatedly. She has been going to WDW 1-2 times per year for 7 years....always at the very least crowded times of the year and touring at rope drop and using FP. She has required the use of the GAC each time despite strategic touring. (And, no, not to ride a ride over and over while you stood in line, flamers.) Cognitively she will not be able to understand the changes required of her. I'm thinking if we go to a different park she may be able to adapt to the DAS system there since she isn't accustomed to another way. The "problem" for us would be that Disney characters & theming are a large part of the appeal for her; i.e SeaWorld was a waste of money as she wasn't interested and doesn't like big coasters.

Thanks. And thanks for responding to everyone's questions/concerns regarding your proposed DAS system. I completely get it now & believe it would be more successful for my DD's various differences than the new DAS system...especially with the inability to have access to FP's as we had in the past.

 

[Jrob369]

But the issue is that you don't get a FP for EVERY attraction, which is essentially what this system requires a person to do. This is why it DOES cause extra traveling, again, especially at Disneyland, where you MUST go to a kiosk to get a return time. There is a great example on the official DLR thread of someone who was in ToonTown and wanted to get a return time for Gadget's Go Coaster. This would mean going down a non-ADA compliant hill to a kiosk in Fantasyland, getting the return time, then going back up the hill to go on the ride. No, I don't know all of the details as to why they didn't get a return time before going into ToonTown, my guess is that they already had one for Roger Rabbit's Cartoon spin. You might say that they could have gotten a FP for that, but that may or may not be true, as some days FP is available for it and some days it isn't. So, when it isn't available, you would need a return time for Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin and Gadget's Go Coaster. Both are in the same land and the nearest kiosk is a good distance away. How does this NOT cause more traveling than someone who is physically able to get in both standby queues?

This will become more inequitable when they get rid of regular fastpass in Disney World. They will reduce the walking for all but the disabled if the disability doesn't allow scheduling around fastpass plus.

 

[cmwade77]

@cmwade----Could you post a list of the theme parks using the system you propose or one very similar? Somewhere back in the thread I saw that you and a poster from the U.K. had mentioned some.

I ask because between the DAS and FP changes we may not be able to go to Disney anymore. My DD has numerous disabilities. Additionally, she fixates on riding just a few rides repeatedly. She has been going to WDW 1-2 times per year for 7 years....always at the very least crowded times of the year and touring at rope drop and using FP. She has required the use of the GAC each time despite strategic touring. (And, no, not to ride a ride over and over while you stood in line, flamers.) Cognitively she will not be able to understand the changes required of her. I'm thinking if we go to a different park she may be able to adapt to the DAS system there since she isn't accustomed to another way. The "problem" for us would be that Disney characters & theming are a large part of the appeal for her; i.e SeaWorld was a waste of money as she wasn't interested and doesn't like big coasters.

Thanks. And thanks for responding to everyone's questions/concerns regarding your proposed DAS system. I completely get it now & believe it would be more successful for my DD's various differences than the new DAS system...especially with the inability to have access to FP's as we had in the past.

Universal Studios Hollywood (California)
Sea World - San Diego (California)

These are the two that I know for sure use the system that I have suggested, others have mentioned that there are other parks that use the system I have suggested.

That being said, I recommend keeping an eye on the DAS, it will inevitably be tweaked and may end up at a point where it is doable for you.

 

[lovethattink]

We used the new DAS system on Oct 19th and believe the only way it will work for us is if Disney goes to Universal's system and lets DAS holders use fast pass lines or alternate entrances for rides with a 30 minute or less wait. I would also like to see Disney give DAS holders some leeway on return times for normal fast pass returns.

After a day at Magic Kingdom using the DAS, our family agreed that we may need to find other ways to spend our vacations. The extra melt downs and wear and tear running around the park to get return times to wait even more in wheel chair lines made the day not worth the money spent. There was little Disney magic, mainly hard work and dread and avoidance of the next melt down. The DAS as it exists now may work for some but not for my cognitively and physically impaired 13 year old.

Those are changes that would accommodate my son better too. And I did write in and make those suggestions as well.

One advantage I think that my family had on yours was I was forewarned about DAS being more work for us. I had written Guest services before DAS started and was given a number to call with additional questions. I did call and all my questions were answered. The cm informed me that it was going to take planning and partnering with Disney to make this change successful. So I went that first day knowing there was going to be more expected of me as the caregiver.

Time is an accommodation that is made related to school work and tests. Leniency of return time for FP or FP+ would be similar.

I do think a 10 minute window is not enough. But I'm on the fence about a change to it. A larger window may open the door to more abuse making it look more attractive. On the other hand, it would be helpful taking into account the extra wait we had at JC where the wait for an accessible car is longer.

Last time we went to a park it was hot and humid. Finding air conditioned waiting areas and entertaining for that time was work. It's cooler this weekend, so I'm interested in seeing how cooler weather affects our park time. It should make things much better since we won't have to find indoor areas for entertainment between attractions.

 

[OurBigTrip]

But the issue is that you don't get a FP for EVERY attraction, which is essentially what this system requires a person to do. This is why it DOES cause extra traveling, again, especially at Disneyland, where you MUST go to a kiosk to get a return time.

No one is required to get a FP or return time for every ride. You may choose to, but you're not required to.

 

[OurBigTrip]

@cmwade----Could you post a list of the theme parks using the system you propose or one very similar? Somewhere back in the thread I saw that you and a poster from the U.K. had mentioned some.

I ask because between the DAS and FP changes we may not be able to go to Disney anymore. My DD has numerous disabilities. Additionally, she fixates on riding just a few rides repeatedly. She has been going to WDW 1-2 times per year for 7 years....always at the very least crowded times of the year and touring at rope drop and using FP. She has required the use of the GAC each time despite strategic touring. (And, no, not to ride a ride over and over while you stood in line, flamers.) Cognitively she will not be able to understand the changes required of her. I'm thinking if we go to a different park she may be able to adapt to the DAS system there since she isn't accustomed to another way. The "problem" for us would be that Disney characters & theming are a large part of the appeal for her; i.e SeaWorld was a waste of money as she wasn't interested and doesn't like big coasters.

Thanks. And thanks for responding to everyone's questions/concerns regarding your proposed DAS system. I completely get it now & believe it would be more successful for my DD's various differences than the new DAS system...especially with the inability to have access to FP's as we had in the past.

No one is taking away the use of FP's...you can still use the with the DAS.

 

[KPeveler]

No one is required to get a FP or return time for every ride. You may choose to, but you're not required to.

No, we do not HAVE to get a FP, but we do HAVE to use the DAS. Or get a wheelchair return card (for those rides that are not mainstreamed). And that means going to the actual ride... wheeling all the way to the ride, then go somewhere, then go back. And while many others have this fantasy of me going on a million rides while "waiting in line" with the first FP, I am not actually allowed on most other rides due to my wc, and I cannot wait in those lines anyway! Hence the DAS.

If I was allowed to get the return time for the next attraction as I am leaving the first, it would be fine, but I have to go all the way to the next attraction to get a time! Too much wheeling for me travelling solo!

 

[cmwade77]

No one is required to get a FP or return time for every ride. You may choose to, but you're not required to.

But there are attractions where you are required to get a Return Time, such as in my case where there are physical turnstiles. Now someone else doesn't have to get a FP for that attraction. But I have no choice but to get a Return Time and since I don't have a wheelchair, I must go to the kiosk to get it.

 

[OurBigTrip]

But there are attractions where you are required to get a Return Time, such as in my case where there are physical turnstiles. Now someone else doesn't have to get a FP for that attraction. But I have no choice but to get a Return Time and since I don't have a wheelchair, I must go to the kiosk to get it.

If you have a DAS, you have to get a return time from the kiosk. If you don't have a DAS, my understanding is that you get the return time at the attraction.

 

[IndianaPrincess]

I had to stop reading this on the second or third page due to people's obsession with "fair". But still, I wanted to add that I love the idea of waiting the amount of wait time after you ride. LOVE IT. I also would have liked to be able to get another RT once our current time had come without striking it out. We waited... but just couldn't get over to that ride at the time. It would have been great for that to be reflected somehow.

JUST FOR DISNEYLAND AND DCA - For the love of everything good in the world, please let the attraction CM give out return times or triple the amount of kiosks.

JUST FOR DISNEYLAND - There needs to be a wheelchair DAS system. The return card system has many defects (open times, holding many at once, return locations mixed in with DAS holders, confusion on what attractions get them and where, etc).

 

[tinkerpea]

Yes, but parks also use the current DAS system just fine as well.

I think keeping it the way it is, allowing immediate access into the WC line versus a return time, and allowing return times being given as 5 minutes before the park closes would be an easy fix.

Adding a few more kiosks would be nice, but I think it's hard to gauge how much the average guest walks around the park as well. I've hoofed it across the parks on multiple occasions.

But there are many people who are not finding the current DAS just fine,
That's the point!

 

[cmwade77]

I had to stop reading this on the second or third page due to people's obsession with "fair". But still, I wanted to add that I love the idea of waiting the amount of wait time after you ride. LOVE IT. I also would have liked to be able to get another RT once our current time had come without striking it out. We waited... but just couldn't get over to that ride at the time. It would have been great for that to be reflected somehow.

JUST FOR DISNEYLAND AND DCA - For the love of everything good in the world, please let the attraction CM give out return times or triple the amount of kiosks.

JUST FOR DISNEYLAND - There needs to be a wheelchair DAS system. The return card system has many defects (open times, holding many at once, return locations mixed in with DAS holders, confusion on what attractions get them and where, etc).

Yes, I agree with this obsession about it always being fair. I don't ask for fair, I ask for EQUAL, which to me means equal waits, etc.

The problem with only giving out return times at the attractions is that it causes people to have to go all the way to an attraction, just to be told that you will need to leave and come back however much later. At most attractions this wouldn't be much of an issue, but there are a few that are not near services that those who need the assistance might also need. Ultimately, I think they should be able to give out return times at the kiosks OR at the attraction it's self.

There definitely does need to be a wheelchair DAS system, but it should also not necessarily follow the same rules. The return times should be given out based on attraction load for wheelchairs. For example, there are 10 people ahead of you needing the ADA vehicle, we will issue a return time accordingly. This may or may not coincide with the length of the line, so it may be that they need to be allowed more than one return time.

Again, my proposed solution eliminates all of this complexity.

 

[tinkerpea]

We used the new DAS system on Oct 19th and believe the only way it will work for us is if Disney goes to Universal's system and lets DAS holders use fast pass lines or alternate entrances for rides with a 30 minute or less wait. I would also like to see Disney give DAS holders some leeway on return times for normal fast pass returns.

After a day at Magic Kingdom using the DAS, our family agreed that we may need to find other ways to spend our vacations. The extra melt downs and wear and tear running around the park to get return times to wait even more in wheel chair lines made the day not worth the money spent. There was little Disney magic, mainly hard work and dread and avoidance of the next melt down. The DAS as it exists now may work for some but not for my cognitively and physically impaired 13 year old.

I'm so sorry you had a hard time at the parks with the current DAS and I really hope they turn to universals system on the system that's being talked about on here.

 

[cmwade77]

If you have a DAS, you have to get a return time from the kiosk. If you don't have a DAS, my understanding is that you get the return time at the attraction.

Exactly my point, since I have a DAS, if I want to go on Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin (when FP is not available) and Gadget's Go Coaster. I have to go to a kiosk (nearest one is near the Teacups in Fantasyland) to get a return time for one. Then I have to leave ToonTown, walk down a non-ADA compliant hill, go back to over by the teacups to get a return time for the other. Then walk back up the non-ADA compliant hill and go on the other attraction.

Imagine doing things like that ALL day long. Can you see why we are saying the system is not EQUAL?

 

[OurBigTrip]

Exactly my point, since I have a DAS, if I want to go on Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin (when FP is not available) and Gadget's Go Coaster. I have to go to a kiosk (nearest one is near the Teacups in Fantasyland) to get a return time for one. Then I have to leave ToonTown, walk down a non-ADA compliant hill, go back to over by the teacups to get a return time for the other. Then walk back up the non-ADA compliant hill and go on the other attraction.

Imagine doing things like that ALL day long. Can you see why we are saying the system is not EQUAL?

Yes, I can see where it isn't equal. Of course, it also isn't equal that you can ride an attraction while waiting for two other attractions, whereas non-DAS holders can't.

There is no way to make it exactly equal, but it can't, or at least shouldn't, go back to the way the GAC was.

I still think the best way is what I proposed earlier, i.e., allow DAS holders to get wait times for many rides at the beginning of the day, with the wait time for each one added to the end of the previous one.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Exactly my point, since I have a DAS, if I want to go on Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin (when FP is not available) and Gadget's Go Coaster. I have to go to a kiosk (nearest one is near the Teacups in Fantasyland) to get a return time for one. Then I have to leave ToonTown, walk down a non-ADA compliant hill, go back to over by the teacups to get a return time for the other. Then walk back up the non-ADA compliant hill and go on the other attraction.

Imagine doing things like that ALL day long. Can you see why we are saying the system is not EQUAL?

And I have to admit, I cracked up at the "non-ADA compliant hill" comment. I can only assume that you're joking, and that you don't really expect Disney to flatten out the hill.

 

[Robbi]

It strikes me as odd that people would have a problem with disabled guests getting on a long wait ride last under the proposed system, but currently don't seem to have a problem with the fact that disabled guests are essentially "locked out" of rides at the end of a park day as CM's are refusing to give return times when the line exceeds the time the park will be open - even though normal guests can get into a line right until park closing.

I guess that problem doesn't matter!!

My eyes have been opened with all the DAS threads. There are some people who have been very ugly about those with diabilities getting any consideration at all. Some have even posted that those with kids who can't deal with wait times should stay home.

 

[cmwade77]

And I have to admit, I cracked up at the "non-ADA compliant hill" comment. I can only assume that you're joking, and that you don't really expect Disney to flatten out the hill.

No, of course I don't. The description is for the benefit of the people on here that only know WDW, so they can understand how hard this travel can indeed be.

That being said, there are ways that they could fix the issue, for example bring back the Jolly Trolley and extend the tracks to the bottom of the hill. Of course, I would expect that those with DAS and wheel chairs would get priority boarding, as the primary use is to provide for better accessibility. They could even redesign the trolleys to accommodate ECVs. But we could start a whole other thread on fixing accessibility issues in the park. And yes, with some creative use of modern technology, they can ALL be fixed, including the Main Street Train Station without violating anything to do with it being a Historical Landmark.