Dining plan speculation that I have heard for 2008~

[bicker]

This is why all of the "poor service because of the DDP" speculation may come to pass after all.

Well, a lot of that was self-fulfilling anyway. That talk, itself, contributes to people expecting to see poor service, which, in several ways, prompts poor service. Also, the passage of time can always be relied on to prompt a perception of poor service: "Things were so much better way back when," regardless of whether or not they were.

 

[Brian Noble]

buffet and price fixed family style meals (like Ohana's..or even the skillet at WCC) will likely remain unchanged.

Unintended consequence #1---Le Cellier and its ilk will decrease in popularity, while 1-credit fixed-price meals will increase.

You read it here first.

 

[Nancyg56]

I just spoke with my DD and she is as happy with the new plans as well. We would try the deluxe because we end up paying for several meals OOP in order to enjoy some signature meals. My DH always feels deprived if he doesn't get a full breakfast so he would get his wish. I think even with adding in the tip this may work for us. We'll see what teh plan looks like when it is released.

 

[Nancyg56]

Well, a lot of that was self-fulfilling anyway. That talk, itself, contributes to people expecting to see poor service, which, in several ways, prompts poor service. Also, the passage of time can always be relied on to prompt a perception of poor service: "Things were so much better way back when," regardless of whether or not they were.

Absolutely. When someone is already planning how to reduce a servers tip because there may be poor service, and they have not even started the vacation, you can bet there is going to be a lousy meal or two.

And as to the "good old days" I remember my Dad once told me that they "really weren't so good". He grew up during the depression so he never could understand how people remembered days so bleak so fondly, but he would them recall times when things seemed so much better. It must be the same thing here.

 

[patsal]

Well I'm out completely if those are the changes. I will realize no savings on the plan and there is no way I'd be paying anywhere close to--I've rounded up for easier math--$280 per day in food (dollar cost averaging of course) plus tips. As for the regular plan I would maybe have seen it as ok without the tip included, but losing the app. cinches that to a nope as well especially if the price isn't coming down considerably. I'll wait and see if the DDE is going up considerably again. Back to pre DDP with DVC for us, so there will be a lot more Florida and a lot less WDW.

 

[familyS]

Cruiser1969, thanks for the link . That Unofficial information is as official as we can get for now! I'll do a little more number crunching with the no apps, 1 dollar less info for the new standard plan.

 

[patsal]

Unintended consequence #1---Le Cellier and its ilk will decrease in popularity, while 1-credit fixed-price meals will increase.

You read it here first.

Which would make plan #2 appealing if I didn't have "adult" children. Oh what I'll be able to do when I don't have to pay for 4 adult PAP's and 4 adult DDP's ! I would much rather have seen a plan that was a bit tweeked not stripped--take the dessert away from the CS, and a choice of App or dessert. But I am only part of one family and what works best for me isn't necessarily what everyone else likes either. I dislike buffets and AYCE, so having the people who usually frequent them out of the traditonal sit down restaurant will make for a much quieter experience--I'm still overwhelmed by the noise level I expereinced this past trip. I will miss the kids having control of their credits when they separated from us--part of the appeal was that they could get their own food without putting charging privs. on their cards. I guess I'll give them an "allowance" when we are at WDW parks.

 

[pilferk]

Unintended consequence #1---Le Cellier and its ilk will decrease in popularity, while 1-credit fixed-price meals will increase.

You read it here first.

LeCellier, for dinner, even with entree and dessert ONLY, can pretty much blow the new (and the old) single day DDP price per adult away. You can (entree, dessert, and drink) spend around $43, OOP, including tax, on that one meal.

Buffets run much less $$$, even though you "get" more...so from a value perspective in relation to using DDP vs NOT using DDP, I'm not sure they maximize your savings. Yes, they provide more sheer FOOD. I'm not sure that's going to be the motivating factor for everyone.

 

[SplashMountainMama]

Sorry to jump in after 13 pages, but I can't help but wonder how the Deluxe plan won't be too much food for everyone? We've gone 2x on the DDP and both times we left credits unused because it was too much food. I've never eaten at a signature restaurant so I'm not sure if portion sizes are smaller (though presumedly fancier), but it seems like an awful lot of food to me.

 

[pilferk]

Sorry to jump in after 13 pages, but I can't help but wonder how the Deluxe plan won't be too much food for everyone? We've gone 2x on the DDP and both times we left credits unused because it was too much food. I've never eaten at a signature restaurant so I'm not sure if portion sizes are smaller (though presumedly fancier), but it seems like an awful lot of food to me.

"Everyone" is a BIG category. Some people can really pack it away. My "little" brother is 6 ft 9, weighs only about 220 lbs, and eats like a horse. He could (I've travelled with him, so I speak from experience) EASILY put down 2 full TS meals per day, 2 snacks, and a "light" CS meal. Others...probably not so much. I think it's really a family by family determination.



And remember, you don't HAVE to do all TS's. I don't think less than 2 TS's per day would make for good "value" of the plan, but....the option is there. it's 3 "generic" meal credits per day...CS or TS. How you use them is up to you (which provides great flexibility), and how they're used to achieve good value remains to be seen (via numbers analysis).

You're expressing one of my worries too. I think it might simply be too much food, and too much of a time commitment, to do 2 TS meals per day. I have to really sit down and consider. The elimination of the apps actually makes it more "appealing" on that front....and we'd likely NOT get 4 desserts per meal. Considering that, when running the numbers, it may turn out NOT the deal for us. DDE may, eventually, be "it".

 

[JimMIA]

Unintended consequence #1---Le Cellier and its ilk will decrease in popularity, while 1-credit fixed-price meals will increase.

You read it here first.

Unintended consequence #2 - People who have cars (e.g. us ) will switch to eating offsite, where they will find better dining and lower prices.

We'll switch to eating one character meal each trip and the rest offsite because the new plan increases our family's cost about $25 per day.

 

[DCDisney]

LeCellier, for dinner, even with entree and dessert ONLY, can pretty much blow the new (and the old) single day DDP price per adult away. You can (entree, dessert, and drink) spend around $43, OOP, including tax, on that one meal.

Buffets run much less $$$, even though you

Yes, for that one meal at LeC it does generally work out to do better than the cost of the DDP but for every other meal it would be break even (buffet dinners) or lose money.

If we were trying to get the most we could we would be better off with 2 separate rooms in a value and putting adults on the the deluxe plan and kids on no plan and just buying them kids meals OOP since they would pay adult prices and want kids food anyway. The kids meals at signature places cost the same as anywhere else anyway.


I think we'll stick to no plan though if they had cut the basic plan more than $1 I would have considered it desopite the changes. There is no way they can keep saying it saves 40% though.

Yvonne

 

[pilferk]

Unintended consequence #2 - People who have cars (e.g. us ) will switch to eating offsite, where they will find better dining and lower prices.

We'll switch to eating one character meal each trip and the rest offsite because the new plan increases our family's cost about $25 per day.

The question is, really, is that really "unintended". Maybe, maybe not (we'll never know, of course). It could very well be that it's an INTENTIONAL (or at least PREDICTED) consequence of the changes.

But the truth is: with DME, on-site tranportation options, etc...a WHOLE lot of people are pretty much "captive audiences". Not everyone, but many. In addition, we Dis'ers tend to be a LOT more informed, a LOT more fickle (IMHO), and a LOT more "independant minded" than what I suspect (again, I have no proof, just suspicion...so all this is IMHO) WDW's "average guest" displays in their spending habits.

So, to the "captive audience"...any savings is a good savings. 10% - 20% isn't too shabby. SOME may go off site, but that effect may actually be WANTED by Disney. Opening up supply a bit for an obviously (look at how far in advance you need to make ADR's) overloaded supply chain.

I can certainly see how these changes might make sense for Disney. The question is going to come down to, I think more and more, on whether the DDP's incarnations make sense for an individual FAMILY, rather than being the almost overwhelming "no brainer" to about 90% (again, a guess, not a real number...) of vacationers.

 

[deltachi8]

Rumor 2008 Gone will be the appetizer from the Table Service meal.

Imagine this in 2008
Place Ma ma Melrose on DDP

"May I have bread and butter with my meal"
Sorry we no longer serve bread and butter howerver you can get it
as an appetizer! Your on the DDP plan ?
"Yes"
Sorry you no longer get an appetizer ! You will have to pay for it out of pocket

Exactly how many threads do you intend to copy this post into?

Just curious...

Onto the discussion at hand, depending on the final price, it still may be worth it, even if dollar wise it is more break even. There is value to having your food (or at least a good portion of it) paid for before arriving on your trip. It is up to each person to decide how much that is worth to them.

 

[pilferk]

Yes, for that one meal at LeC it does generally work out to do better than the cost of the DDP but for every other meal it would be break even (buffet dinners) or lose money.

Well, Brian MENTIONED Le Cellier by name, so...that was the obvious example.

Keep in mind, we're talking JUST the new price of the rumored standard plan,here (not the deluxe):

Kona Cafe: $36 (with a CS and snack left)

50's Prime Time: $34 (with a CS and snack left)

Tony's Town Square: $34 (with CS and snack left)

I think that's a pretty broad spectrum.

Granted, those dinners aren't PAYING for the full day, but pretty darn close. Add about $20 to cover CS and snack to the above totals. Looks like you're saving AROUND 30%, over OOP, right?

Buffets offer more FOOD, but cost about $25 per adult ($30 if Character). So while the "value" for your money OOP is very good, your value on the DDP is less, overall. With buffets, you'd only be saving between 15% and 20%-ish.

If we were trying to get the most we could we would be better off with 2 separate rooms in a value and putting adults on the the deluxe plan and kids on no plan and just buying them kids meals OOP since they would pay adult prices and want kids food anyway. The kids meals at signature places cost the same as anywhere else anyway.

I think we'll stick to no plan though if they had cut the basic plan more than $1 I would have considered it desopite the changes. There is no way they can keep saying it saves 40% though.

Yvonne

If you've got kids over 10, who eat like birds, definitely it looks like the DDP is not for you. The question is: was it ever? If you've got kids under 10, I don't think there's any way you don't save money. If you're an adult, you can realize savings of varying amounts depending on where you eat and what you eat. It's more "work" now to realize that savings, and to figure out if you'd really save anything over your OOP costs.

If the rumored changes are true...it's going to be a LOT more "family by family" now. For us, it's going to be close no matter which plan we choose or what we do, I think. When I get the numbers for our trip, I suspect it's going to come down to a "vacation style" issue over a cost one...since I suspect the numbers are going to be pretty close. We'll see.

 

[gina2000]

Unintended consequence #2 - People who have cars (e.g. us ) will switch to eating offsite, where they will find better dining and lower prices.

That's where we were in February. We just saw the OOP expense climbing, the quality and choice dwindling and the quantity halved.

I do think the fallout may not be what WDW expects. When the cost of the food verses the quality/quantity combined with the cost of the DME exceed renting a car and eating at comparable restaurants offsite, you'll see a shift. As it is, some people have already said they're headed back offsite for superior living arrangements at better prices. Just as they didn't predict the DDP loopholes and the wild popularity, I think they'll miss some of the fallout on the downswing. How much profit they capture between the highs and the lows will determine how successful this entire endeavor has been.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Hooray!!!!!!!!!!! I am So-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o happy about the deluxe dining plan!!!!! In our estimates of 2 TS per day using DDE, paying OOP for the 3 of us, would run around $1300 for 9 days. This is only $1280 for the same time period, but with 3 TS. That means character breakfasts every day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And we can finally head back to some of the signature restaurants for dinner.

As for tipping OOP, fine with us, although I have never personally felt that we have received poorer service with the DDP...

 

[JimMIA]

The question is, really, is that really "unintended".

Yeah, "unintended" is probably not the right word. The more correct concept is probably that some going offsite is a loss they anticipate and are willing to take.

But the truth is: with DME, on-site tranportation options, etc...a WHOLE lot of people are pretty much "captive audiences". Not everyone, but many. In addition, we Dis'ers tend to be a LOT more informed, a LOT more fickle (IMHO), and a LOT more "independant minded" than what I suspect (again, I have no proof, just suspicion...so all this is IMHO) WDW's "average guest" displays in their spending habits.

I think your "suspicions" are right on the money. I'm sure we've all seen the dazed "sticker-shock" looks on visitors who really can't believe how much their vacation is costing them!

For every gushing trip report we see here, I'm sure a lot of folks go home thinking, "It will be at least ten years before I do that again!" I have several friends who only go to WDW every five years or so strictly because of the cost (and they're in Miami and just drive up). They love WDW, but they just can't afford it.

 

[JimMIA]

As it is, some people have already said they're headed back offsite for superior living arrangements at better prices.

Yes, that's a whole other option that I didn't consider because it doesn't apply to our family. I'd bet that Disney expects some of that and will try to make it up with marketing.

 

[gina2000]

Yeah, "unintended" is probably not the right word. The more correct concept is probably that some going offsite is a loss they anticipate and are willing to take.
I think your "suspicions" are right on the money. I'm sure we've all seen the dazed "sticker-shock" looks on visitors who really can't believe how much their vacation is costing them!

For every gushing trip report we see here, I'm sure a lot of folks go home thinking, "It will be at least ten years before I do that again!" I have several friends who only go to WDW every five years or so strictly because of the cost (and they're in Miami and just drive up). They love WDW, but they just can't afford it.

I know this is very true. I know too many people who have shifted their vacation dollars away from staying onsite, away from WDW dining, away from WDW souvenirs and in some cases, away from WDW parks because they've been priced out or they feel the experience isn't worth the $$$. I also know people who have come back who will never go again. Part of that is the expense, part of it is the crowds and part of it is that they just don't get it. Bottom line is the WDW has failed to capture their $$$ for a repeat performance and even more than that....WDW has failed to satisfy a customer who will not recommend it to others as a vacation destination.